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Bob your theme of meta

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theme of metaphors reminded me what

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first impressed me in your presentations

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was the choice of mind opening metaphors

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and you've been an inspiration to me for

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35 years amongst others by that choice

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well connections as the theme of this

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conference made me even more aware of

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how troubling is the disconnect between

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reality and what science is supposed to

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be telling us nowadays our Society for

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scientific exploration was named

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believing that scientific means

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empirical evidence based understanding

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and Bob John's pea group exemplified

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scrupulous evidence gathering so it

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would be incongruous incredible if

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scientific institutions were to say that

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something is settled science when the

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let alone that science would tell us

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that something is true when the evidence

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quite clearly says that it isn't and yet

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that's what's happening not all the time

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of course but all too often and on some

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climate changed the evidence is

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uncertain

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we are told the city the science is

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settled the evidence is clear we are

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told that HIV causes AIDS and that is

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demonstrable wrong by the mainstream's

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own data and evidence and even worse

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when people blow the whistle their

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suppressed and persecuted of course

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members of this society are familiar

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with that sort of reaction when it comes

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to topics like UFOs parapsychology and

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so on but the point is that the same

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sort of thing is now happening squarely

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within mainstream medicine and science

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and I realized that this must seem

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incredible even to members of this

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society because after all we're aiming

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at a scientific approach to say that

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science is not trustworthy is sort of

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like a meeting matricide or patricide

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but the point is you have to distinguish

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between science as it should be and

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science as it actually is and the media

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and the policy makers are not aware of

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that distinction and they certainly

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don't make that distinction let me ask

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you is it conceivable that mainstream

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wholeheartedly you say of course and so

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would mainstream scientists but ask them

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could mainstream science be wrong about

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carbon dioxide causing climate change

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could it be wrong about HIV causing AIDS

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could it be wrong about the big bang and

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you would not get such a wholehearted

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response and I don't think you'd get

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such a wholehearted response even from

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this group the point is that several

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centuries of tremendous successes of

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mainstream science have given us good

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cause to trust science on the whole and

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in general but another distinction that

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fails to be made is between frontier

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science and older science it is the

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well-established long lasting science

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that is pretty reliable nothing about

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contemporary science can be regarded as

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certain but it is the media treatise all

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the time to the latest breakthroughs and

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then they don't bother to tell us when

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it turns out that those breakthroughs

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actually were mistaken in some way the

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history of science is unfortunately

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understood properly only by academic

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specialists on the whole the popular

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history of science tells us about steady

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advances some of them so startling as to

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be called scientific revolution

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but the actual history of science is one

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of trials and errors and of advances

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being vigorously resistant and the

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scientific revolutions that are

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milestones of progress are at the same

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time they are gravestones of what that

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scientific revolution overthrew the

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point about scientific revolutions is

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that the earlier beliefs of mainstream

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science were wrong they had to be

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changed and the ignorance of history of

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science is particularly bad because in

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the last 50 years there's also been a

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dramatic change in the nature of

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scientific activity to put it in an

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oversimplified nutshell most of the most

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of modern science most of the two or

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three centuries of modern science could

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be said to have been done by something

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like independent intellectual

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entrepreneurs nowadays science is an

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integral part of big business big

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government international policymaking

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and that has brought pervasive conflicts

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of interest the fact is science is not

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its own thing anymore it's been co-opted

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and corrupted those are generalities let

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me get down to data about one

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outstanding case here's what everyone

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knows about HIV it's transmitted by sex

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primarily

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it causes AIDS it's epidemic in

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sub-saharan Africa it was inevitably

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fatal until life-saving drugs were

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developed here's what the actual

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evidence about hiv/aids is there is a

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negligible risk of transmission via sex

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the so called HIV tests do not detect an

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HIV virus you can be HIV positive for

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any number of reasons that includes

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things like pregnancy or happening to

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have African ancestry all that is

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documented with more than 900 citations

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to the literature in this on this

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website the case against hiv/aids now

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here are some more detailed things about

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hiv-positive I prefer saying HIV

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positive rather than HIV because

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hiv-positive is something measurable and

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HIV as a virus may not even exist in the

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United States and around the world there

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are some number of people who are in

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jail because they were HIV positive and

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had sex with someone without telling

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them that they were HIV positive there

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is an organization the office of medical

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and scientific justice that offers its

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services to people who are charged with

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this offense and if that offer is

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accepted you are guaranteed

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to be found innocent because when om SJ

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is able to cross-examine in court

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experts from the mainstream side they

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are forced to admit the risk of

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transmission is negligible the most

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significant success that IOM SJ had

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quite recently was that the US Court of

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Appeals for the military ruled

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unanimously that the risk of

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transmitting HIV or HIV positive is

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negligible because it's no more than one

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in five hundred one in five hundred acts

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of unprotected intercourse is the

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maximum risk of transmitting HIV isn't

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that very different from all of the

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public statements that you hear about

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HIV and about the dangers of of passing

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it on if you go to the CDC's website you

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see that they admit your risk of passing

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on HIV if you're a male to a female is

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about eight in 10,000 and from female to

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male it's half of that and compare that

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to the risk of passing on genuine real

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sexually transmitted diseases like on a

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here's the thing straight from the CDC

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website and you see that the only way

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that there's a high risk of passing on

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HIV positive is through a blood

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transfusion

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think about it you test blood by any old

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test anything it comes positive you put

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that blood into a person isn't it

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remarkable that that blood still tests

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in exactly the same way as before it

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tells you nothing about transmission or

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presence of an infectious thing so why

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do the media not broadcast the fact of

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negligible HIV transmission negligible

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risk why do official statements continue

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to urge the use of condoms and why is

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there continuing global hysteria about

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sexually transmitted HIV and

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particularly in Africa and by the way if

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there is such an HIV epidemic in Africa

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why are there not epidemics of syphilis

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and gonorrhea which are transmitted

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hundreds of times more readily I'm not

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going to answer those questions because

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they're rhetorical ones and I just used

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them to express or emphasize my

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frustration about this situation

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James chin was an epidemiologist for the

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state of California and later for the

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World Health Organization and as an

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epidemiologist he calculated what it

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would take for the supposed African

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epidemic to have come about given that

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the risk of transmission is so low well

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it would take 20 to 40 percent of the

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sexually active population to have ten

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sexual partners concurrently and to

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change them about every year if that

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situation actually existed you wouldn't

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need Jin's calculation to point it out

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here are just a few more little tidbits

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about transmission no transmission has

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ever actually been observed when people

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have seated they choose couples where

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one is positive and the other one isn't

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and observe over time no transmission

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has ever been observed porn stars do not

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usually wear condoms because the

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prospective audiences prefer that they

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don't and over a five-year period the

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porn industry in California recorded two

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cases per year of HIV positive as

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opposed to 260 cases of gonorrhea and

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435 of chlamydia another peculiar thing

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about the idea of sexual transmission is

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that the people who are least likely to

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be sexually promiscuous are most likely

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to become hiv-positive pregnant women

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for example or TB patients and it turns

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out that married women are more at risk

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of becoming HIV positive than

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prostitutes or women documentation of

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all of those things is on that website

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the case against HIV the there are many

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other facts that speak against HIV as a

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cause of AIDS and so on but the case of

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HIV

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and AIDS is unfortunately just one

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admittedly outstanding example of the

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degree to which mainstream science and

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medicine managed to ignore the evidence

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and I've mentioned a number of other

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examples in my 2012 book dogmatism in

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science and medicine prescription drugs

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are an outstanding example extinction of

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the dinosaurs nuclear cold fusion the

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disease has been caused by amyloid

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plaque which has been disapproved any

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so today's science is nothing like the

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wonderful modern science that we enjoyed

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up to I think about the middle of the

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20th century and I'm afraid that this is

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one symptom of what the cultural

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historian Jacques Barzun wrote about in

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his last book from dawn to decadence 500

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years of Western cultural life 1500 to

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the present

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I think if science is not going to

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succumb in the way that it has been it

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is going to be people in this society

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and like them who will stop science

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the mid 20th century transition date

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that you still have showing up here I

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think is a tip-off to the source of the

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problem the mid century with nuclear

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weapons with the Sputnik terror and the

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space program where when non-scientists

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became aware of the fact that science

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actually matters so of course it became

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politicized then yeah absolutely

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Henry you are a fine observer of the

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history of science and the philosophy of

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science and as such you've shown us for

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years about the problems with current

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scientific inquiry and the response of

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society as an observer of science you've

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probably also seen how revolutions do

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actually happen and how change actually

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takes place may I ask you to make some

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optimistic comments about what glimmer

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of hope you may see where this change

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may happen that you're calling for yeah

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I was gonna apologize to Garrett in my

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talk because several years ago he asked

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the difficulty is that it is a

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society-wide problem it's not internal

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to science and so we're caught up in the

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same sort of overall denigration of I

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suppose almost any value that isn't

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purely economic we measure everything in

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terms of economics science is measured

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in terms

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of economics if you are trying to do

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science in an academic environment

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you're judged by how much money you

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bring in it used to be 50 years ago the

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university gave you the resources to do

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science no longer you're you're a money

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cow okay so I don't know that there is

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any way of reforming what has happened

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to science without reforming a great

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deal about other aspects of society so

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one observation is that every generation

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says that the next generation is worse

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you know they this goes kids don't

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behave anymore they're addicted to

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screen time they're this and that and

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every generation is wrong because things

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change they don't necessarily get worse

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and change changes actually in terms of

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social attitudes it is quite clear that

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the younger generations are due heading

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in a much better direction than we are

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so thank you there is cause for optimism

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with your dating there and the timing

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that you've mentioned is it any is there

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any possibility that you could look at

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the loss of certainty and religion

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switching over that the desire for

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certainty has never left but instead of

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it aiming at religion which continues to

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decline because people are questioning

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the quote truths but people are still

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looking for truth but they don't like

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any disagreement with what they've found

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is truth and this is we're still in the

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either-or stage with most people it's

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got to be either this or that there's no

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middle ground we can't even talk

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discussions that are civil where you're

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willing to listen to somebody else's

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disagreeing I think this is a much wider

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problem that we're facing today

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yeah III agree entirely Cara that that

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there's still the quest for certainty

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and in the West at least we discarded

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religion as a source of absurdity and

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substituted science for Henry I'd like

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just like to suggest that we're at the

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end of an era and what you're describing

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and what I'll talk a little bit about on

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Saturday afternoon are the

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characteristics of the end of a paradigm

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which then allow for the emergence of a

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new one and so there's not much good

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news in the old paradigm but there's a